What would Jesus Say to
Catholic?
Southern Gables Church
August
19, 2007
Introduction
I consider
it a great privilege to be able to talk to you this morning…I’m sure you
noticed as I did when I saw the list of the distinguished speakers for this
summer series that it started with DR. Jerry Nelson, then Dr. Dr. Dr. … I was a
little encouraged when I saw MR. Keith Swartley, then I realized he was just an
editor of an important book, team member on an U.S. Center for World Mission,
is an expert on the world of Islam…
then more Dr., Dr. and then there’s me … here’s Ed …
We
need to PRAY…
Lord, Thank you for your presence and
for all here and we need to hear from You …Holy Spirit help us to understand
what it is you want us to know…
Someone
once said that public speaking is talking in someone else’s sleep… but I have been praying that God would use
the words I speak to benefit you and bring glory to Him…because I do know from
personal experience what it meant to be Catholic at least what it meant about
25 years ago….
I
was adopted from a Catholic orphanage here in Denver, My wife Sue and I were
both raised in Catholic homes and attended catholic grade schools, I went on to
a Catholic High school, I was educated by sisters and brothers, men and women
who had devoted their life to teaching in a catholic schools …
We
have been attending Southern Gables for about 22 years … we have 7 children,
they range in age from 25 to 5 and this year we had one graduate from college,
another graduate from high school, another continue from 8th grade,
another give us our first grandchild, always something happening with a big
family
and
many times when others find out that we have that many children we are still
asked the question are you Catholic ?, or are you Mormon ? Some just ask are
you crazy? ----We may be guilty of the latter but it is a wonderful crazy – a
lot of life around our place
Growing
up here all our lives we know a lot of folks here, both family and friends, and
many of them from the Catholic community, or at least if you asked them what
religion they were - they would respond Catholic, and we have tried to maintain
as many relationships as we can over the years…
I
love a part of my Catholic experience, the community, the reverence, the people
and it has been my experience that some that I know, though they may not be
able to articulate their faith in words that we are familiar with, express
their love for God and for others through their lives …
Some
of you may have grown up in the Catholic Church …some may still be there and
just visiting. Welcome.
When
I was asked to speak today regarding “What Jesus would say to a Catholic” it
began to occur to me that it was really rather an interesting subject. But from
my perspective we would have to define a few things first
Today there are an estimated one billion plus Catholics in the
world. They make up almost 18 percent of the world population.
According to USA Today the 2007 Official Catholic Directory
there are some 62 million Catholics in America today…
And
I’m sure your aware that as evangelicals we have quite a connection with the
Catholic Church …
In
simply reciting familiar words of the Apostles’ Creed, as we did this morning…
The
creed is a historic and simple summary of basic truths confessed by early
Christians.
Most
Catholics know this creed well. They might be surprised to hear Protestants
quote it.
This
creed is a profession of essential truths believed by all Christians over the
centuries.
It
is a beginning — a starting point for all historic Christian confession.
Evangelicals
share more than a few vital biblical truths with Catholics.
We
both seek to cultivate a distinctly Christian worldview.
We
both believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God.
We
are consistent in our beliefs in the doctrines of the Trinity, the deity and
humanity of Christ, and the bodily resurrection of Christ.
We
both confess faith in His ascension into heaven and in His future bodily
return.
We
believe in life after the grave and in the judgment that follows.
There
has even been a document written and endorsed by some of the most well known
Christians today attempting to unite both Protestant and Catholics based on the
common beliefs
Evangelicals
and Catholics Together (ECT)
Document …
This
caused some controversy between those who are both visible and looked at for
their opinions by many …they range from John MacArthur who calls it “… a false and deceptive form of
Christianity.” To Colson, Bill
Bright, JI Packer and friends that are
signatories of this document said they "Hoped it would make waves and
change established patterns of behavior in this country and overseas."
If
it did, they thought its strategic importance would be far-reaching, and
apparently its impact has been wide, and powerful. For example, its been
reported to have circulated inside the Vatican and been received there with
great enthusiasm.
One
Christian publication said, "It was a landmark document."
Christianity
Today and the Christian Coalition have both referred to it as a "Historic
Document."
The
Wall Street Journal, of all places, said, "This document was the wave of
the future." That many feel this document is uniting Catholics and
Protestants in North America to stand together on social issues, and it is
helping stop the conflict in Latin America and other countries— and it shows
how important and influential this document is.
While
maybe influential, the conflict that remains about the document is the same as
was the issue earlier …
Unity
is good and even Luther, Calvin, and the early Protestant Reformers strongly
affirmed their loyalty to the creeds and went far to demonstrate that they were
true heirs of the early church.
But
there came into the teachings of the church man’s ideas and concern developed
about maintain the purity of the following of Jesus as contained in the Word of
God…
Ideas
applied through the sacraments and their meanings distorted what we would
understand to be Biblical …The sacrament of infant baptism, where grace was
first received, was critical to bringing one into a relationship with Christ
and His church.
The
Supper (or Mass, as it was eventually called) was the central channel of grace
for all baptized believers who wished to receive grace and remain united with
Christ.
The
burden of maintaining a right standing with Christ, led to the idea of what
developed for coming properly to the Mass — penance.
In
penance the faithful had their repentance made whole and complete.
Penance
was intended to change behavior, but in time it was identified with punishment
for what the confessing person had already done.
All
this initiated the beginnings of what we know as the Reformation — because of
the sale and commercialization of indulgences.
If
a person died with mortal sin (murder, adultery, and so on), he or she was on
the road to perdition. Mortal sin kills the life of grace begun in baptism,
though confession may bring back the life of grace.
Un-confessed
venial sins (lying, petty theft, unkind words, and so on) meant that the person
would need to spend time in purgatory, a place for cleansing (purging) from
remaining sin.
All
sins, even those confessed and absolved by the priest, incur a debt of temporal
punishment, a finite amount of time to be spent in purgatory.
It
is here that indulgences came powerfully into the picture. Jesus Christ, the
Blessed Mother, and the saints are all believed to have earned an abundance of
merit through their holy lives.
From
this excess of stored merit believers might receive additional help. This help
could be received through certain prayers, the veneration of relics, and the
use of religious articles, such as rosaries, crucifixes, and medals.
During
the Middle Ages paying money to the church for indulgences would also bring
divine help. This money not only assisted the faithful giver but also would
assist the church in the work of its mission.
The
truth is that practice is still around in some form…we have a friend that pays
a 91 year old Nun to pray for her son who is a marine being deployed to
Iraq…Sue prays for the same young man I’m not sure what she is charging?
It
was the admitted abuse of this practice that led to the steps taken by Martin
Luther that precipitated the great divide in the Western church.
But
Evangelical faith is not anti-Catholic faith.
What
the early Protestant Reformers did do was to challenge a church authority that
they believed contradicted it.
They
believed, quite simply, that the church had gone beyond the authority of
Scripture.
And
that the gospel had been lost through the evolution of doctrine.
This
so corrupted the church, according to the Reformers, that complete reformation
in the areas of faith and practice was the only solution.
Though
not described as completely as today, the Reformers believed that the Church of
Rome had abandoned two vital
principles:
Scripture
alone, the idea of scripture alone is sufficient and complete in being the
source and revelation of Truth regarding the knowledge of God and salvation
And
the clarity and understanding of Biblical Justification , That salvation was by
grace alone through faith, outside of any merit from the works of any man.
The
opportunity to work these differences out remained until the Council of Trent .
. . and its devastating canons.
Stating
that:
Tradition
is equal to Scripture in authority;
The
interpretation of Scripture and the elements of Holy Communion are to be denied
to the laity;
The
Mass is a repetition of Christ’s sacrifice and each Mass atones for the people;
Transubstantiation
must be believed as well as, purgatory.
And
these and others are stated in the strongest of terms declaring the
disagreement regarding these beliefs results in being an anathema.
These
are still held as the “official” doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church but
there is most likely a great difference from what Jesus would say to the
Official Catholic Institution of the Church and what He would say to the
Catholic individual…
WHO ISN’T JESUS COMMUNICATING
WITH?
Jesus
is NOT talking about or to the Leadership of the Roman CATHOLIC CHURCH rather
He is addressing a catholic person
Jesus
is talking to a Person not an institution
Now
if Jesus were to speak to the institution of the Catholic Church …I’m sure He
would have quite a lot to say regarding some of the issues that I mentioned …
While Jesus may very well congratulate
the Catholic Church on it’s firm and consistent stance on things like Pro-Life
and families and marriage… and might mention the success of those who dedicated
their lives to serve others …
He would surely …
Question the practice of absolution of
sins from the Priest in Confession and the idea of Penance
He might address the official teaching
regarding prayer to Mary and prayer to saints, proclaiming again that He is the
only mediator between man and his Father
He might mention the miracles and some
people’s focus on (Fatima, Medjagory), where millions travel … hoping for an
experience…
He might clarify the issue of the
transubstantiation, the belief of the actual changing the bread and wine into
the physical body and blood of Jesus
He might talk to them about their idea
and teaching of Purgatory, the belief that there is a place that holds the dead
while being purified prior to entrance into God’s Kingdom
I’m sure He would question the idea of
the Infallibility of the Pope when speaking from the Chair (excathedra) which
He has done only twice – both relating to Mary
Maybe He would speak to the leaders
about the Rosary – the prayer beads that are repetitively prayed in decades
that recall the mysteries of Christ
He would make clear the sufficiency of
Scripture alone as a guide in which to live and know God
He would restate the fact that
Salvation is by Grace alone through Faith
It
would probably be much like Jesus dealt with the Jewish Leadership” of his day,
pulling no punches but rather forcefully calling out not only their error but
their motivations,
…
but when Jesus addressed the individuals, He did so with Truth and compassion,
gentleness and mercy …
There
are many things that we might not understand or agree with that are practiced
or seemingly believed by your catholic acquaintances … Ash Wednesday, medals,
St. Christopher statue on the dashboard, I thought I noticed what I thought was
one here in the parking lot – it turned out to be one of those hula girls
…
I
had dinner with a friend the other day at his mothers home, their family is
Catholic, most of his siblings were there and we sat down to eat…the
conversation turned to one of them mentioning that were planning to sell their
home ... one sister mentioned that the other should bury a statue of St Joseph
(the stepfather of Jesus) in her yard, and to be sure he was upside down … I
didn’t say anything I wasn’t sure if they were kidding for my benefit, or if
they believed that it would actually increase their chances of the house
selling … I finally decided it could be just a ploy to negotiate down the
realtors fee, for after all if a Saint was involved he had to get some credit.
They
may have customs we are not used to … what should we expect
Jesus
is talking to the individual…but who is the individual?
WHO IS JESUS COMMUNICATING
WITH?
There
is a very wide spectrum of what being a Catholic could fall into…It would be
very different to be a Catholic say in Spain where the Haley’s live than it
would say in Ireland and then that would be different than those living in
Boston or Chicago.
Why
even here in Denver my In-laws go to a Catholic church where the “MASS”, the
Catholic church service, is said completely in Latin and the priest’s back is
always to the congregants. The ladies wear veils or some type of head covering
and it is very much like church used to be when I was a young boy.
On
the other hand, Sue and I just recently attended the wedding of the young lady
that was the flower girl in our wedding. This service was held in a brand new
Catholic church, the priest not only faced the guests but had a microphone on
that fit on his head and came around in front much like those pop stars …I
picked up their worship booklet and if we here at Southern Gables were to sing
out of that book, you would recognize all the songs.
They
advertised several Bible study groups meeting different times of the week.
Very
different and yet both Catholic.
For
today’s purposes I am going to limit the “Catholic” to the American Catholic
whether in the Trinitarian congregation like my In-laws or a more contemporary
church like our newly married flower girl.
Also,
like could be said of many of those claiming to be Jewish or Christians for
that matter, many Catholics are Catholics in terms of their Culture only… not
really their faith … traditions are practiced because that is what they have
grown up with and that is what you do certain times of the year, but not
because they believe strongly that those traditions deepen their faith … they
are Cultural Catholics. They were born into a Catholic family, and they are
Catholic and that is what you do.
Also
we will assume for this morning that Jesus is again in the Role of Savior – not
judge
Also
we will assume that Jesus is talking with a Catholic in which has no personal
relationship with Him. Because like our
church, the catholic church it is made up of both those individuals who have a
personal relationship with Jesus and those that don’t.
The
Catholic Jesus is talking to is the Catholic that could live next door to you,
work with you, go to school with you, play golf, you know him…
Because
I believe some of the benefit of today could be to better understand how to
interact with our Catholic friends we have to identify a few things that Jesus
would already know …
WE SHOULD REMEMBER A FEW
THINGS
Expect a Catholic to act like
a Catholic…
I
know the way it was and am learning about how it is now…its changed for the
better
Then Now
No
speaking Jesus name uncomfortable Jesus spoken about
Strong
Community ??
No
Bible Bible Studies
Not
open to evangelicals No church visits Open to evangelicals ideas
There
is Difference between Catholic culture and evangelical culture
Evangelical
– good works, Bible study, 2 sacraments and singing,
When
Sue and I first started attending Southern Gables, the singing just never
ended… it went on and on and on, honestly I bet you guys sang 4-5 songs in a
row…I didn’t think it would ever stop …then we went to Sunday school …I was
sure everyone in our young families Sunday school class had attended
seminary…we left the class and immediately volunteered to help in the 2 year
old class … so we could learn the Bible stories…It was great I was more excited
than the kids …I’m like … come over sit down pay attention … Sue, Can you
believe this Daniel story … man !
Catholic
– kneeling, standing, kneeling, standing, good works, catechism, vocations and
vows, 7 sacraments
For
a Catholic to enter into our service is as strange as it is for you to enter in
to theirs…
We
should no more assume that a catholic is “saved” than we should assume that
someone that attends SGC is saved.
For
many churchgoing people not just the American Catholic, they believe for the
most part that he or she can pick and choose what they want in terms of “living out their
faith” …
And
may not know the “official” position of the church or at least not how to
defend the position
But Mans problem is not
ignorance
When
we were new Christians, Sue and I still attended the Catholic church, sometimes
at a campus ministry and then later a more traditional Parish church. I was convinced that those Catholics that I
knew had just not heard the gospel, they didn’t understand that Salvation was a
gift and had to be received in a personal way.
They just had not heard…
I
had signed up to teach an in home study on adult catechism, I reworked one of
the lessons to explain what it meant to be “Born Again”…and in the lesson
shared the gospel … it was well received by 2 and not appreciated by the older
attendees. The 2 younger gals, probably
in their mid – twenties, each made professions of faith. The older reported me to the head of Adult
studies at the parish and The adult director actually told me that the Born
Again thinking was to exclusive and that Jesus was ONE of the ways to heaven, I
was asked to leave. …We eventually
ended up at SGC.
I
had mistakenly thought that Mans
problem was ignorance …
Imagine
growing up and having no way to learn like we have at SGC, or Bible Study
Fellowship, or your Sunday school class or small group
You
would only know what you were exposed to…
that’s why those that hear you quote chapter and Verse don’t know what
your talking about … when you tell them you have been washed in the Blood. They
just stare at you and begin to back away…
We
can think they’re just stubbornly refusing to see the truth! Not surprisingly,
Christian understanding of Catholic objections to Truth has often been marked
by superficiality, insensitivity, and triumphalism but …
They
will gain Knowledge (Truth) - like you and I do … from God, by HIS GRACE and
because of that we should have no arrogance in our position, but rather incredible
gratitude…
Mans problem is not
ignorance, mans problem is sin
We
should assume they know more than they do and agree with those common things
Don’t
worry about the Pope, infant baptism, Mary worship or praying to the saints, if
their selling their house - help bury Joseph…talk to them about what you do
know you have in common …share that Jesus is God, risen from the grave, Scripture is true, the sanctity of Life …
And
Tell them YOUR story and
speak the truth. Share the gospel in a personal way
Focus on the important stuff
… HIM
They
don’t need to change churches or stop doing this or start doing that - they
need to meet someone they haven’t met
Not
a list of “dos” or “do nots” but rather and understanding of who Jesus is…
They
have to be introduced to someone they haven’t met and don’t know
Pray for them and then love
them
Pray
that they grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ (2Peter
3:18)
Live
so they will ask about the Hope that is within you. (1Peter 3:15)
Relationship
is the catalyst for any non-believer to “see” Jesus
what
we do speaks so loudly many times they can’t hear what we are saying
DL Moody said that, “the best way to show that a
stick is crooked is not to argue about it or to spend time denouncing it, but to
lay a straight stick alongside it.”
There
is a little poem that I heard a long time ago that says
I rather see a sermon than hear one any
day
I ’d rather you walk with me than
merely point the way
The eye is a more ready pupil than ever
was the ear
Good advice is often confusing, but
example always clear
That is the
challenge - to you and I - people are watching… what will they see?
SO WHAT WOULD JESUS SAY TO A
CATHOLIC?
I
know the answer to this one because I heard Him … I heard what Jesus did say to a Catholic – me
Jesus
would say what He has already said…
I am the Living God …
I
and my Father are One. We are Holy.
Perfect. We are Love. But we are also Just.
Whether
you know it or not, it is true that anyone who does not know Me is in desperate
trouble.
You
know that God in heaven is holy, perfect, (Lev 19:2)
And
you know that you are NOT. You are a sinner, un-holy. (Romans 3:23)
The
penalty of sin is death, both physical and spiritual … I know you, I know every
detail about you, I formed you and I know your deepest needs, desires, fears,
thoughts, motivations and because you like all men came into this world as one
infected by sin, because of Adam, and then committed sin on your own, rebelling
against my Father you are guilty and deserve that punishment. Death.
(Romans 6:23)
I am the One sent by My
Father to save you because you need it…
You
see I am also perfect Love and I was sent by my Father not to condemn you but
rather to save you and to offer you the gift of Eternal Life. To be in my
presence from now on. (John 3:16-17)
I am the Savior of the world
but it is also true that I died for you
I
know you understand and even can agree that I came for the sins of the world,
but you don’t realize that I came for you and your sins. While it’s true I love everyone, it is just
as true that I love YOU and though you are guilty and have an eternal death
sentence, I came FOR YOU and I suffered FOR YOU, I took your sins and agreed to
pay the penalty that YOU owed even though I never did anything wrong, I was
beaten FOR YOU, I was, Humiliated, Abandoned, Spat Upon, Crucified and my Blood
shed FOR YOU, I died FOR YOU. (1Timothy
2:6, Galatians 3:13, Matthew 20:28)
I am the One who did this
because you could not
You
could not accomplish this…
I
am the only One who could bear the wrath of My Father and pay the full penalty
of sin.
there
is nothing that you can do to make me love you more or love you any less. Any
good thing you have done I have caused you to do…My Father looks at what I have
done on your behalf and adopts you into His family and calls you his child, My
Brother…forever. (Colossians 1:20-22)
I did this that you may have
Eternal life and know you have it
I
also rose on the third day, conquering death FOR YOU and I have had St. John write
in the scriptures the assurance that you can have of what this means. That you
“may know that you have “eternal life”.
No place to wait and be purified until you are completely cleansed of
your sin or prayed out to go to heaven.
I did that--it is finished, one sacrifice for all. To be apart from the
body is to be in MY Presence if you know me (1 John 5:11-13)
I am the One that offers you
this gift
All this I have done FOR YOU, but make
no mistake what I offer you must accept and receive. I know that you believe IN
ME; which is not what I’m talking about, you must believe ME. The scripture never teaches that the profession of
faith but rather faith itself saves a person. No church membership or family
connection…. this is personal between you and me.
There
is No chance apart from me… after
death there is NO "second
chance" for salvation (Heb. 9:27; 2 Cor. 6:2)
Believe
me when I say…I am coming again, but the next time I will come as judge. All those who do not know me will perish.
(Rev 20:11-15)
“I
am the Way, The Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father but by me.”
(John 14:6)
I
am not one of the ways, I am THE Way, the ONLY Way, I am The Truth, unchanging
and all knowing I am absolute Truth and I am Life, abundant life now and
eternal life forever (John 17:3)…
I’m
inviting you to know ME, to obey ME, to Follow ME, to Trust ME and to do it
today.
That’s
what Jesus would say to a Catholic and not just to a Catholic …
Enter
in to a relationship with the One who Died for you, the Living Savor, Jesus,
acknowledging your need for Him, Asking
Him to forgive you of all that keeps you apart from Him and committing to Him
to follow Him as Savior and Lord of all you do and are .
Will
you ask Him?